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OCTOBER 2007 LTTE |
OCTOBER 31, 2007 I agree Jeff. That was as ugly a game as ugly can get given the conditions.
Correct me if I wrong, but didn't The NFL Europe fold for lack of support? I know there was an issue as some fans knew this was not the best product out there -i.e. not NFL caliber players?
I suppose if they sell a few more licensed products that's more money for the league, but in the words of Bud Fox "How many yachts can you water-ski behind?" – John F.
John, the problem is that people didn’t want to pay good money to watch an exhibition game (which is basically what NFLE was). The NFL is hoping that by staging regular season games featuring 60 minutes of the stars, maybe the third time will be a charm.
Thanks for the update on Mare, Scott! I didn't remember him & I know that he was never on the Giant squad. I looked up a couple of bios and they didn't mention his being on our "Taxi Squad." (I still love that term.)
About the "flap" over the London game, I don't have a problem with the NFL doing this. The biggest problem seemed to be that the grass is kept closely cropped for the European style "football," soccer. Well, this is apparently not good for the American football game, especially when it rains and there's not good drainage. I personally like games that are played on natural grass. (Like Dizzy Dean said, "I wouldn't play on anything a cow can't eat.") But, just about the whole NFL now plays on "turf" and the fields are crowned for drainage. The Commish should check on the field conditions prior to getting a site for another such game.
Now, on to Eli. There's NO gtreater Eli fan than I. Having said that, I have to agree with Pat that he wasn't that good in his passing. The worst mistake was overthrowing Amani in the back if the end zone. But, in the second half, he hit Amani right in the hands at the goal line & Amani let it get away from him. So, those two pretty much offset each other.
Those three passes to start the second half were absolutely horrendous; any one of them could've easily been intercepted. If conditions prevented him from being sharp, how come the young Dolphins QB completed over half his passes AND threw some really good ones? People have been blasting Eli about disappearing during the cold weather part of the season. This London game sure doesn't help in our hope that he can overcome that. – Jim V.
Jim, lots of players told me off the record that the field was THE WORST they had ever played on, with one guy telling me it was worse than the old Veteran’s Stadium in Philly. The problem is that the field was ideal for soccer, but not ideal for football.
That game in London was one of the worst the Giants have played in some time. Eli, as you point out, was awful even with the " drops" from his receivers. The fact is, Cleo Lemon was far more on target all day than was Eli. I think the concerns about Eli in bad weather persist until proven otherwise. The other story is the playcalling. Only an idiot would have put three straight passes on Eli in our first possession of the second half.
A look at the first half film showed that Eli was off target, his receivers were dropping balls, and Eli was regularly throwing into dangerous coverage; so passing made no sense as a first choice. Every throw was a turnover waiting to happen.
Furthermore, Brandon and Ruben were both running well. I think the brains of our offensive co-ordinator need to be re-examined.
This game,of course, proves that weather can be the great equalizer. It took our defensive advantages away, and all of our offense except running. I grade the coaches ( not defense ) an F for this game plan , as well as for the absence of adjustments. A moron would have had us running all day.
And what is with Aaron Pierce? I think you hammered him appropriately in the game coverage. But he should sit down. I just know he is going to kill us with stupidity against Dallas. He is losing his skills so he makes up for it with personal fouls? And the coaches? Do nothing, as usual. Not even pull him from the game for a play?
I, too, am looking forward to the emergence of Michael Johnson at safety. He could be a good one.
And who is this "Adams" person on the DL? He is not even on the posted roster of this site.
We have good reason for both optimism and trepidation as we enter the second half. I hope Ward and Brandon and Plaxico can fully heal during the bye week, though that is not likely.
There is little doubt that Dallas is a better team than we are right now. So , unless we put together a perfect game, we are going to be 6-3 shortly.
I am so horrified at the stupidity of the offensive co-ordinator during the Miami game, I can't get off the subject.
That game plan was brainless. And Coughlin has responsibility for allowing it. – Ted M.
Ted, of all your points, I’m perplexed by your question about Adams on the DL. You mean Russ Davis (BTW, I think you meant to say ANTONIO Pierce, not AARON Pierce. <wink>)
I can’t believe that the Head Coach and the Offensive Coordinator almost lost this one just like they lost the Tennessee game last year. They had Miami down and the only way that they could come back is if the Giants didn’t kill the clock and didn’t pin them deep in their own zone with terrible playing conditions. Not to mention that our QB and receivers were having trouble with the weather conditions. The only way that the Dolphins had a chance is for the Giant coaches to give it to them and they did. If Coughlin had really changed he would have instructed his OC to run, run, run and punt them deep. His first three positions of the second half were 7 out of 13 passes with a first position of 3 passes and out. This led to an interception and a fumble by the QB. Besides the three knee downs after the failed on-side kick at the end of the game they passed 14 times and ran 16 times. We will always be out coached by most teams no matter how good our players are or how good they play? Giving any team extra chances to beat you is just dumb. The HC and OC need to go see the wizard.
Also, maybe someone should introduce Eli to a passing glove. He seems to have a poor grip on it when it gets cold or rainy. He may have small hands compared to other pro QB’s. -- Rob L.
Interesting point there Rob, about Eli. As for the coaches, what drives me crazy is sometimes they try to be too clever for their own good and sometimes it nearly comes back to bite them in the butt.
Enjoy your work as usual. This team has shaped up much better than I had expected and I'm glad of that. We have more impact players than most teams; Manning, Burris, Shockey, Toomer, Strahan, Os and Mathias with Ross on the way and Robbins and Cofield growing.
Whatever happened to William Josephs? I'm not a fan of his but curious. – Alan C.
Alan, last I heard, Willie Joe was seen on the sidelines of a Miami Hurricanes game.
Pat, you completely missed my point, and, I certainly don't believe I was being "extreme." Please, please, "read my lips." Europeans will NEVER forsake their "football" i.e. soccer, for American football. And I don't care how hard Goodell tries, it ain't gonna happen. It's like baseball which is virtually a unique American game, nobody in Europe, with the exception of the Netherlands, plays it. Maybe Goodell will have more success in Asia, I can't say but I'm positive that he's running up the wrong "tree" by trying to shove American football down the throats of Europeans. To them and a good part of the rest of the world, football is what we Americans call soccer and I think particularly in Europe but also in other areas of the world there is resentment that we Americans have "bastardized" that term by using it to epitimize a game where the "foot" is somewhat secondary to success in the game.
BTW, other than to say you've had a bad experience with satellite TV you really didn't make a comment about my desire to make the NFL readily available to all Americans. Any ideas or comments? – Bill S.
Sorry Bill. I’m still a bit jetlagged. I am all in favor of making the NFL available to everyone here. There’s no reason that I can see why a transplanted New Yorker living out in California shouldn’t be able to see the Giants where they live.
I think Coughlin isnt firing Tynes because of Alford? Think about it, Alford and Tynes have a little chemistry now, if you bring in another guy, they have to get that chemistry down with the snap, hold, kick.....again. It would be pretty tough with a whole new kicker. Is that a fair assumption? – Sam S.
I don’t agree Sam. Tynes would have had to get used to Kuehl, so instead he has to get used to Alford instead, and actually Feagles is experienced as a holder, so the snaps shouldn’t be that much of a problem here. The problem with Tynes is in his kicking motion – he’s setting up too close to the ball. Watch some of his misses and you’ll see what I mean. I’m not saying all the snaps have been perfect, but Feagles has handled the majority of them, save for maybe two or three. OCTOBER 30, 2007 Kyle, you are speaking to the president of the “Give Eli a Chance” brigade. I’ve been on board with him since day one. But comparatively speaking, can you sit there and tell me he had an equivalent game performance wise to the ones he had against Dallas and Green Bay? Come on Kyle. You want your quarterback to progress, not regress. Yes, the weather was bad. Yes the play calling was questionable. But Guess what? The weather has finally turned here in the north east, and until Eli can show that he can handle the elements, that issue will be a cloud hanging over his head.
In reference to your "Hit's, misses, stats and Musing", I have to say it's sounds a little closed minded on a few accounts.
Getting electrocuted in a press box is a little over dramatic. There is zero chance of that happening in any western European stadium, which leads me on to my next point.
There is not one world class stadium in Europe that I know of that has a Press Tribune closed to the weather. They are all open...and 81000 people attending a game in London is nothing to be sneezed at.
There's usually a Press Centre where you can watch the match on a big screen and stay out of the weather if that is what you wish to do.
Maybe it's a little too much to expect a transplant of the US to Europe...because...it IS Europe and NOT New Jersey. Leveling any sort of criticism at Wembley stadium is a little closed minded in my view.
Otherwise it was a great chance to see "the real deal" and the first chance I got to see the Giants play live since I became a fan in 1989...and I flew from Switzerland just to do it. -- Mark G.
Mark, “HM&M” consists of my initial impressions (mixed in with a touch of humor) of the day’s events. Obviously when we sit down to write the post game issue, we have a lot more information to work with. BTW, one of the things I found interesting was that the Americans didn’t get the European humor and vice versa.
As for Wembley, I had no problems with it other than as I said, being exposed to the elements with a pricey piece of electronics equipment that doesn’t respond well to dampness or moisture. I’ve sat in worse elements before and don’t mind it but not when I have my own personal laptop (the only one I knew would work over there) with me.
I’m also well aware that I could have gone inside, but it wasn’t that bad out to where I felt I needed to (and if that were the case, then I might as well have stayed home to watch the game, right?) So I did go prepared for the outdoor elements, the exception being is that I didn’t bring a plastic covering for my computer.
As for the crowd, how many of the 81,000 in attendance were Americans or Americans living in Britain? Nearly every single Brit I spoke with during my stay – and I spoke with a lot of people – couldn’t care less that the game was there. While I’m sure there were some European fans who got into it, I’d be willing to bet that the majority of the crowd wasn’t as European as the NFL likes to think it is.
As for Goodell's trying to make his "mark" by globalizing football, forget it. Europe will never forsake soccer for football and I will predict that if he continues down this path he will not only not win over European fans but he will alienate many Americans as well. In short, he will be regarded as nothing more tha a buffoon.
If he really wants to "make his mark" as commissioner he will make all NFL games more available to Americans. I live in Florida and the ONLY way I can assure myself of watching every Giant's game in my own home is to have Direct TV and subscribe to the NFL Ticket for $250 which will bring me approximately 10-12 Giant games which ordinarily I would not be able to watch on national TV. I'm willing to pay it because I can easily afford it. But what about all those Giant fans who live in areas outside NY who can't afford to see their Giants except other than to go to a Sports' Bar? Even then, they probably have to spend $20 bucks per game for drinks while they're there.
Mr. Goodell, if you really want to "make your mark" as commissioner, I would suggest that you correct this "injustice" and make a plan that assures every AMERICAN that they will be able to watch their favorite NFL team every week without having to give an " arm and a leg" which they can ill afford. – Bill S.
Bill, I think that’s a bit extreme. I don’t think American fans will stop watching the game because a couple of contests are played in Europe. And despite some logistics issues, I don’t think the whole experiment was THAT bad. My biggest concern was the field and the elements. It’s one thing to have rain, but if you have a flimsy grass field that’s not made for American football, then that to me is a problem. Other than that and a few other minor inconveniences, I didn’t think this was as much of a disaster as you seem to believe it is. (Though the one thing I do agree with you on is that I wish the NF It’s simply sick that I can’t get the NFL Network and that’s the one channel I really need to get hold of, except I don’t want to mess with a satellite dish having had bad experiences with them before.)
Hopefully this puts closure to the Olindo Mare question....
From Mare's Bio: "1996 – Signed as an undrafted free agent by NY Giants and spent season on their practice squad" – Scott V.
Thanks Scott. October 29, 2007
As a long time devoted reader of the weekly write-up (I assume you mean the 8 page analysis available to subscribers), I must disagree with the following: Jim, Webster DID play against the 49ers. I don’t want to sound like a broken record here, but subscribers who get our weekly write-ups get a run down of everyone who plays – including the lesser known types like Domenik Hixon, Russ Davis, etc I just did a search through last week's writeup, and there is one mention of Webster, and it refers to his play in the first 2 weeks of the year (under Ross' analysis). There is no mention of what Webster did against the 49ers. Do readers receive different versions? The only DBs analyzed in the version I received were Madison, Ross, Wilson, Johnson and Dockery (Page 4-5). Hence, the reason for the question of where is Webster?
In answer to Jim C, Olindo Mare was not on the Giants. He went udrafted after he left Syracuse but was signed by the Dolphins. He, of course, is now on the Saints. BTW, Jim C, why are you jumping ahead of yourself? If you need to talk about such things, join us at TAILGATE. – Jim V.
Yipe! Giants 13 Dolphins 10: the Black Mass of professiional football! Glad it wasn't played in Dublin; someone might have been offended. As it is, I don't see many Brits demanding an NFL franchise anytime soon. For his penance, Eli should watch hours of film showing the touch on Tom Brady's short passes; and the defensive players should be condemned to seeing themselves falling off arm tackles in London. After this stinker, a bye will seem like a godsend. Oh well, a win is a win, I guess. -- Dave L.
Of course, not everyone disappointed, Lawrence Tynes, the man who put the thrill back in the extra point, missed an easy field goal – nothing new there! This game did have some nostalgia, Will Allen, a corner I always liked, had a good game for Miami, and a former Giant place kicker, Jay Feeley, who I never liked, was his old self as he missed a field goal. Still I would gladly offer to trade Tynes for Feeley right now. There simply has to be a former, retired field goal kicker – living or dead – who would be better than #9. Looking ahead, I would feel so much better if we weren’t playing Dallas right after our bye week. What’s our record coming off the bye? Have we ever won? We would have better luck playing them in the Bermuda Triangle! -- Barry S.
October 28, 2007 That said, looking way ahead, if we were to make it to the Super Bowl against the Pats or Colts (assuming injuries all around are minimal – major assumption), I think there are some areas this team needs to improve or where some changes may be needed in order to compete with the elite. I threw in a few questions for you: I've been looking around, and can't find it on this site or any other source, but where exactly is C Webster? I'm happy to see him off the field, especially with how well the CBs have been playing. But I didn't even notice him on the sideline last week. I didn't see him on inactive, but they didn't even put him on the field at the end of the half when the 49ers were throwing bombs down the field and we were in prevent. Why is he active if he can’t get on the field for hail mary passes? Everyone is talking about replacing Tynes, but other than Huston, who is out there? I agree, in his past, he had been fairly reliable with KC, but he’s missed more XPs in half a season than I remember any K missing in a season. You think the Giants regret passing up M Crosby from the Pack for the 2008 6th round pick? I wrote to you after the draft (it was posted) what a bad decision it was to pass on Crosby, who has looked pretty good this year, for Koets (who we don't appear to have a need with Whimper coming along). That was written before we got Tynes, who I was happy to get at the time, but is not looking so good now. I noticed under where are they now, O Mare was listed as an ex-Giant. It sounds familiar, but how long ago was he on the team? I assume he must have been cut in camp, pretty sure it was not regular season. I am in agreement with most people that Butler is terrible, and obviously the staff can’t say he sucks, but there comes a time when he is more a detriment than benefit. It’s coming close to time to move on. What is odd is that the player Johnson seems to be is the player Butler looked like 2 years ago. Do you think Butler’s kidney injury has deterred his aggressiveness? Or is starting a difference? I hope starting is not it, or that may be a problem for Johnson, too. We won’t know until we see it. Lastly, the WRs. I can’t wait to get Smith back. It is amazing that Moss can not get open with that speed and quickness. I’ve watched him, and his routes leave a lot to be desired, he does not cut as sharply as his athleticism would seem to allow. Do you think Moss is gone after this season (realizing there are at least 9 weeks left)? Does Hixon have any abilities as a WR? Or is he simply a ST player? Any chance we see him returning kicks this season? I know the Giants like ball control returners, but at some point, it would be nice to have someone with breakaway ability. Any chance Bradshaw has a chance to compete for KR next year, if he can learn to hold onto the ball in the next 9 months? He has ability. If TC can teach Tiki to hold onto the ball, maybe Bradshaw can learn it, too. – Jim C.
OCTOBER 26, 2007
I'm very disappointed to read that Mannny Wright has had a "setback". During the preseason he had his strong positive moments. Without getting yourself into a difficult position, can you give me your best estimate of his chances of survival when the season ends? This kid is young and talented.... – Mark Z.
OCTOBER 24, 2007 Easy Dan. They have a draft pick invested in Tynes and Coughlin is reluctant to go with a rookie. Plus if you look at Tynes’ career numbers, historically he’s proven to be reliable. For whatever the reason, this year that hasn’t been the case. At this point though, how much worse can Huston be?
Do you really believe that Moss has held down the fort quite well while Smith has been out? He has 6 catches for nothing (almost) in how many games. Smith had 4 in one (or two). – Frank L.
Frank, I think you’ve answered your own question. And if not, check out our write up of Moss as we address this very same topic. J
For the record, I knew exactly what d-bag meant when I wrote it - I was giving myself some wiggle room lest anyone take offense - but since that seems not be the case - I will reconfirm my position that Ashton Kutcher is in fact one- and should not have anything to do w/the Giants. The point was that Tisch appears to be out of touch w/what is cool and/or appropriate to co-brand w/the Giants. – John F.
John. if Ashton Kutcher or any other celebrity wants to be a Giants fan, that’s their right. Besides, I seriously doubt that will change your loyalty to the team. As for what’s cool and what’s not, to each his/her own. Like I said, I doubt the glamorization of the games is going to make people to stop rooting for the team. Anyway, let’s end this debate go and move onto something football related.
Boy, that Tynes stinks! He's going to lose us games down the road let me tell you. Where is kicker Josh Huston since being released from the Giants before the start of the season? Why can't we get him back? He looked ALOT better than Tynes in preseason, and he couldn't do any worse than Tynes right now.
Next, what's up with Pierce and all these stupid almost game-costing roughing the passer hits??!!! Is he becoming senile?
You can't let the awesome performance this team has been showing be ruined by a horrible kicker! Let's make a mid-season trade for another kicker immediately! – Gary D.
And let’s not let the fact that the trading deadline has passed get in the way of logic, right?
Any idea why The Giants felt the need to bring in Russ Davis and relegate Manny Wright to the inactive list. I thought he was making good progress. – Jeff S.
Let’s just say there was a setback along the way and leave it at that since I can’t go into specifics (I was told information off the record and it has to stay that way).
First, I hope you have a great time in London. Wow, the game would almost seem like an afterthought--though I know you will, as always, be the complete professional.
Some observations.
1. I have decided that Eli is not related to Peyton. I actually think he is related to Phil Michelson. He is a great kid, at times his performance is just brilliant, and there are moments when he looks like he has lost his mind. They must be related.
2. I get nervous about everyone saying now "how great" this team is. Do not get me wrong, it is fun to watch. But I do hope these guys do not read their own press. They still have much to work on. I do not see how we can win against tough competition consistently without drastic improvement on Special Teams. I think they miss the old special teams coach.
3. As the season progresses the real test for Coughlin and his staff is whether he can adjust as the game plans become more complicated. It seems this has been a weakness of his in the past, although in light of the changes he has thus far made in his approach to the team, one has reason to be optimistic.
4. You get a much closer look than most of us, but it seems that this team is becoming more unified and focused than the last three years. It seems the adversity the first two games may have been in some strange way good for the attitude of the team. There seems to be more unselfishness and focus on the team than I recall in the past. Even Plax seems like a new man. He has frankly shown some real character in the midst of this injury. Is this real or am I getting caught up in the hype.
Top of the day to you. – Todd C.
Todd, I like Pierce’s attitude. He’s still thinking and talking like this is a 0-2 team (minus the air horn though). He also realizes it’s only October and this is the equivalent to a streaking baseball team getting hot in May. I actually have a few concerns about this week’s game based on some feedback I’ve gotten, but we shall see. Maybe I’m just being paranoid.
So far I think Coughlin, Spags and Gilbride have done an outstanding job with adjusting their game plans. Let’s see them keep it up!
And good observation. This is indeed a closer knit bunch of players and I think the leadership council went a LONG way toward establishing that.
Lastly, rest assured that I’ll be working my little fingers off to bring you coverage from London. I am not sure if my wireless equipment will work over there, but I will do what I can with what I have and if all goes well, have a special treat for readers this week.
okay ya sure we did beat two of the worst teams in football...and about to play THE worst of them all but there is good news out of all this we didn’t just beat them this season we are actually killing the teams we are supposed to. in previous seasons we would of beat these teams by a touchdown a few field goals but now we are winning in almost every aspect of the game...we are controlling the clock putting points on the board. I may be jumping the gun but in two weeks against Dallas some may be in for a pleasant surprise :)this team is almost perfect we just need to fix this darn kicking problem...watch out nfc hear comes BIG BLUE!! keep up the good work. – Nick M.
Nick, I think you are jumping the gun here. This team isn’t as perfect as you seem to believe … and it goes beyond the kicking situation. That being said, they are solid. OCTOBER 23, 2007 Now to my question of curiosity. It seems that ESPN (and other internet sites and pregame shows) keep getting the Giants injury reports wrong. First it was Eli out two months and then Jacobs was suppose to be inactive the past two weeks with the bum ankle. Are they just trying to fill empty air time in Bristol with false "insider" information or do the Giants withhold more information on injuries than other teams causing conflicting reports?
To the classless individual that dropped the F bombs in a letter. What a jerk. It's bad enough you wrote that this to a lady as Pat mentioned, but where have you ever seen that word on this site? And then to cowardly omit your name. If you are going to write it, be man or woman enough to take responsibility.
Finally, Pat and crew, great job as always. Enjoy the trip over the pond and say hi to the queen for all of us. – Jason V.
Jason, right now there’s nothing else out there in the way of kickers. I still say Tynes is going to cost this team…it’s just a matter of time. And what really gets me is that his problem hasn’t been corrected. I mean it’s RIGHT THERE ON TAPE! I have to think the coaches and Tynes himself have seen the problem but why it hasn’t been corrected as of yet is a mystery. (Hint: the problem isn’t the snap or the hold; it’s in Tynes’ set up.)
As for ESPN, I have to believe that someone is feeding Mort and company bad information. This is the problem I have with the national media. They’re not in the locker room every day like the beat people. So they have to rely on hearsay whereas our advantage is first-hand info and our eyes.
BTW, thanks for the support. I realize fans are passionate about their football and the person who dropped the F bomb wasn’t aiming it to me. Still, is it too much to ask to wait until after the game ends before you start ranting like a mad man? I mean the game did end in the Giants’ favor as I recall…
Well, it's amazing how the tone of the letters to the editor have changed with a few wins! We fans are so fickle. I just want to remind everyone that we beat 3 of the worst teams in football. As for the defense we did all of the damage against the Eagles and the kid LT and the niners (rookie LT and immobile QB). Be honest with yourself here, can they do it against a good O line with receivers and QB?? – Chris H.
Chris, the three worst teams in football are St. Louis (winless), Atlanta and the Jets (1-6 each) and Miami (winless). Okay, so the Giants beat two of the worst teams in football. Okay, I’m scratching and clawing for something positive. Anyway, you’ll also notice that LTTE is down – there is less for people to complain about. Will this trend continue? We shall see, but I hope so, not because I don’t like doing LTTE, but because it means readers are happy with what they see. OCTOBER 22, 2007 Secondly, I think nearly every Giants fan believes that James Butler is the least accomplished starter we have on the team. So how come in Spagnuolo's press conference Thursday he TWICE complimented Butler's play, saying he and Madison "have done a great job" [well, Steve was half right on that, anyway], and then saying that Gibril Wilson and Butler "have been solid". [Steve was about 40% right on that, I think.] You were at the press conference, weren't you, Pat? Tell us, was Steve smirking and holding his nose when he made those statements? Or what has he been smoking? – John S.
I know John. Ashamed to admit it, but in anger, I’ve called a few people a d-bag in my day; point I was trying to make is it’s not the best thing to do nor is it a good idea to call someone a word if you don’t know what it means. As for Spags’ comments, what did you want him to say, that Butler sucks?
Wow, I really love the "Where are they now" feature. It is so much fun seeing what old favorites and bums are doing. Didn't know a lot of those guys were still around. Hope you can keep it up. I will look forward to it! – Jeff S.
Thanks to the feedback, Jeff. I have to give credit to reader Alan R., who does a wonderful job of compiling the information for us every week (and who came up with the suggestion).
Aside from the win did anyone notice Michael Johnson take over for James Butler? That was really good to see. The one thing that impressed me most was when he got to the ball regardless if the opponent was on his way down or not he would lay a nice hit, something that you rarely see from Butler. It’s almost as if Butler is afraid of the contact sometimes. I like Johnson’s aggressiveness. Was Butler hurt or just simply pulled for Johnson? I’m hoping we see a lot more of Johnson in the future. You need aggressive players in an aggressive defense. One thing I thought of which is in the past but you almost think that Johnson would’ve made that tackle on T.O during the Dallas game, you remember don’t you, then one where Butler bounced of T.O like a ball and T.O continued running in stride for a TD. -- Dom M.
Butler suffered a “moderate” hamstring.
What happened to the letters regarding Plaxico and Shockey being traded? I know there are a lot of games left to play but I never bought into the idea of trading either player away, even when we were struggling. I can't wait for the off-season and see if the fans still bash on Plaxico and Shockey for training in Miami, I'm not saying I like the idea of them not training with us but it’s clear that Eli is on the same page with both players.
Regarding the whole cheerleaders idea, I am very proud to be one of the very few teams left that Do Not have cheerleaders. I just don't see the point; I was just at the last weeks San Diego vs. Raiders game. They had cheerleaders come out at halftime I sat there and watched and not once did the crowd start cheering for them. Most teams have cheerleaders just so the fans have something to look at and well I don't really care to look. I am focused on the game and could care less about the cheerleaders whether we are winning or losing. I can't imagine cheerleaders are going to attract more fans to the game or keep fans in their seats longer. Thanks, Go Big Blue! – Brett T.
Brett, I’m guessing all the people who expressed the opinion that Shockey and Burress should be traded are in hibernation along with the people who said retaining Coughlin was a bad idea. Good point about the cheerleaders. It’s not like the Giants games aren’t sold out already that they need that to help boost gate sales. OCTOBER 20, 2007 With the Giant backs doing so well it appears that Bradshaw will have quite a wait. – Alan C.
Alan, one of the things I’ve gotten quite proficient in is that I no longer rely on the announcers to tell me what I’m seeing. I trust my own eyes (and in fact, I see things that I’d be willing to bet they don’t, even with the benefit of their fancy equipment).
Pat, just got done reading your excellent On the Road in Atlanta article. I really enjoy them and appreciate the extra time you take write them. You are one talented writer! -- Jack M.
Thanks Jack. I’ll have another On the Road feature from London (with pictures I hope).
For the first time in about 20 years I feel so good about the Giants going into ANY game. Worried that the 49's might be a trap game? Forget it! The Giants finally have a DEFENSE! Yes, a defense that rivals those of the late '80s. No sweat, the Giants will win Sunday. No question about it. – Bill S.
Not to be a downer Bill, but overconfidence is a BAD thing, especially when it’s about something that’s out of your control. Remember, this team was 6-2 last year and we all know what happened. Tread lightly to avoid disappointment! OCTOBER 19, 2007 If I have to go with something for Eli, let’s call him what he really is: “The Franchise.”
The 'post Tiki' era has had some unintended benefits for this Giant offense. To begin with, Eli is sharing the load with more receivers, runners, fullback. Eli has matured and the short passing game has brought a 'ball control' offense that we haven't seen since Parcells. The eight minute drive that started near the end of the third quarter(Atlanta) and ended with eleven minutes to go in the fourth qtr with a field goal was a work of beauty. When you run the ball more than 30 times in a game with the size backs we have....you wear down a defense. Atlanta was pooped during the last minutes of the game. Furthermore, the drive had lots of first down throws that were low risk and set up short second and third down runs. Eli is humming.
Last year the offense didn't help our defense by controlling the ball late in the game to protect a small lead. If we can stay healthy, Reese and Coughlin have built an offensive roster that is perfect for the 'grind em out' months of November and December in the NFC East.
My last point...Michael Matthews in the unsung rookie find on this roster. His blocking gives us the best back up blocking tight end since Dan Campbell. When you bring in Guy Whimper and Matthews on short yardage you really have a 'push' front.
Keep up your insightful analysis. I like your reports because you inevitably see details that add to my appreciation of the game. -- Bill A.
Thanks for the kudos Bill. Somehow I had a feeling they’d be okay without Tiki. And I also agree that if this teas stays healthy – knock on wood – they’re going to be in a great position following the bye week.
I cannot understand the resentment for the Tisch article in the Times by some of the people that write letters to this site. Everyone keeps on saying its about the game not anything else.
Tisch isn't changing the game product, he is changing some of the entertainment when the game isn't in process. There cannot be one person who is happy with the current half time "shows" we put out there. I don't have season tickets but the games I went to in the past 3 years have had pop-warner teams, some kind of dog doing tricks, and a women’s football team (no offense to the women who read this site). It really doesn't get any worse than that.
Plus who cares if there are celebrities on the sidelines. I think the complaints are with which celebrities were on the sideline. I am not a fan of either Ashton or Demi, but I am willing to assume if Clooney or Denzel (who has been at some Jets games on the sideline) were there, there wouldn't be nearly as many complaints. As long as they are away from the players who really cares if they are there or not.
Finally, what are people's problem with having cheerleaders? Every league except the NHL (good reason, they play on ice) and the MLB (there are no sidelines, only dugouts and the players use the field between innings to warm up so there is no room for them), and the Giants. Even the Jets have cheerleaders. As long as its done somewhat tastefully what is the big deal? – Brian B.
No arguments here. However, knowing what I know, I find cheerleaders offensive. OCTOBER 18, 2007 I'm sort of a middle of the pack fan - still on the season tix waiting list, but making progress! And yes the pee wee league and dog w/frisbees lacks a little something, but there is still a twenty year wait for season tix - not like they really need to repackage the product.
Maybe the luxury suites aren't selling like hot cakes and that's what the Tisch article is attempting to address.
I have no problems with better tunes and sound systems, but Giant fans are there for the football whereas in some other cities they are there for the overall event.
I suppose what really freaked me out was the celebrities he thought were cool -Demi Moore, Ashton Kutcher. Give me a break, that guys is a d-bag. I don't even know what that means - I just heard some the "bad kids" use the term :) – John F.
“D-bag” is short for “dirt bag.” It’s probably not a good idea to use words if you don’t know what they mean. – and I’m not an Ashton Kutcher fan, mind you. Anyway, as I said before, the Giants game day presentation needs some sprucing up in my opinion. You have to remember that more and more corporations are buying tickets to sporting events and they give the tickets to clients who in turn bring their family and friends to the games. Now also remember that the family and friends might not be into football, so having an opportunity to see a celebrity or watch a mini concert is a big thing for them. Like I said, something for everyone.
To begin, I didn't read the NYT article but I got the gist from the several writers who commented on it. Let them have "cheerleaders" & singers, etc. Let them have the young folks' music, etc. I don't care. THE GAME is what counts. And, I'll be happy if they just don't try to hype up the uniforms. To me, the Giants have the classiest uniforms in the league; just plain blue with the white & red interspersed appropriately. Some of the teams have uniforms that are just plain hard to look at.
Second, can't you guys enjoy a good solid W? Do you constantly have to crab about something, especially Eli? All you can talk about are the two INTs. At one point, he had 12 straight completions! The first INT was a bad throw. The second was a deep ball that was slightly underthrown; IMHO a good play call.
Look, guys & gals, for years we've been waiting for the "Next Phil Simms." Well, starting this season, I think we've got him. Eli is showing tremendous leadership and, like Phil, he's interspersing his TDs with some INTs. Just like with Phil, we'll have to live with them. To quote Steve Young, "Eli will be a very, very good QB for 12 years or so." That's exactly what Phil was. I'll take it!
Finally, being a blatant salesman again, Pat, why don't you crabbers join the Tailgate? -- Jim V.
Good letter Jim. And if I may add to it, hope to see some of you guys in the chat sessions!
I had to add a comment about the ESPN crew who called the game. I thought Ron Jaworski did a fantastic job explaining how the Falcons got the giants on their touchdown run. He is so good at breaking down a play. I didn't like the Jimmy Kimmel thing either. My question though is why J load is the 3rd string QB, was he demoted? Thanks. -- Keith A.
J-load isn’t as good as he looked in the preseason. Trust me; if god forbid Eli goes down, Wright is the better option.
Following up from my letter from last week you disagreed that Eli looked better in the deep passing game than the short game. On that note, I still believe that the long throw to Plaxico when in single coverage puts the Giants in excellent position to get an impact play or penalty. The one thing that is hard to tell from watching on TV is how often Plax is actually single covered (i.e. is the deep route there for the taking in a high percentage opportunity.)
My question: 1) Is this play there a fair amount of the time (or is there deep safety help which I generally cant see from the tv angles), and 2) Do you agree with me if it is there that they should be taking these shots more often? – Peter L.
Peter, if the Giants can isolate Plaxico against a shorter corner, then yes, it makes sense to try the play once in a while,. But without delving too much into strategy (if you’re a subscriber, check out this week’s issue in which Mike I talks about a few of the passing patterns and why they’re a good fit for what the Giants try to do.
Really happy with the way things are going however I hope these guys don't get lulled into a loss this week. I feel the 49ers are a talented team that, on the right day, can beat anyone. Particularly, I am concerned about Vernon Davis over the middle and Frank Gore's running. Hopefully we can counter that with a good pass rush and stout interior line play.
Also noticed some people mentioning Butler as a liability. I hate to pick on players as I know they bust their humps but this guy just seems lost out there. He takes terrible angles and looks like he has cement bricks on his feet. I am sure Michael Johnson isn't on the field for a reason but I have to ask, any chance we will see him?
Also, I hope Tisch realizes this is the Best Coast not the West Coast (love SF though). LA theatrics aren't well received in NY. That said, the team could use a face-lift of sorts.
Lastly, I can't imagine Steve Smith on the field this week. I'd love to have him back but I just think that type of injury needs time, can't rush a guy back. You rush him and he gets hurt even worse, you have the potential to ruin a young receivers' mental game. – Bill D.
Bill, I don’t think Steve Smith will play this week. I’m thinking he’ll be back after the bye. Johnson is still rough around the edges, but I think ultimately he’ll get a chance to compete As for the direction the game day presentation is going, see my response above.
Another impressive performance by the New York Football Giants. The defense dominated after that long run, and the offense looked very very good. I have always been a big fan of Eli Manning and continue to be. People need to realize that he is not Peyton, never will be, but will be a dam good QB for years to come. Its hard to live up 2 expectations of an older brother who makes the QB position look easy, and its alot tougher playing in the media capital of the world. New York is much different than Indy. Peyton had 0 playoff wins at this point in his career, and I expect Eli to prove the rest of his doubters wrong the rest of the year. The interceptions at the end of halfs need to stop, but half that is on the coaching and the other half is not having Burress in practice everyday to get there timing down on certain routes. On the D-Hall interception Toomer did absolutely nothing to break up that INT he said he lost it in the lights, which it should have been knocked down 2 prevent it. All in all it was a very good win for this team who should be 6-2 going into their bye week. I expect an 11-5 season because they finally have a defense that can stop someone. GO GIANTS! – Kyle H.
We shall see Kyle.
Pat,Is it just me or was the TV coverage of the game on ESPN the worst in years. I felt like these people were reading old story lines about Tiki, Eli and Tom Coughlin.The camera work, the distractions of Jimmy Kimmel did nothing to enhance the broadcast. They could get rid of everyone with the exception of Jaws.I like the G men's development, the teamwork,the combativeness. I am holding my breath a bit regarding the schedule, I believe the schedule is 'easy', on paper,but, hopefully,our guys know that we still have mistakes to improve which is exciting because we can get better.Pat, thanks for providing real coverage, while I watched the game I felt like I had read about these topics ages ago at IF!Go G-men! – Keith C.
Keith, as I write this, I haven’t seen the tape yet (damn these Monday night games). But having watched other Monday night games, I can say that I’m not overly impressed with the overall presentation. OCTOBER 16, 2007 Thanks for the love Jim. :)
Maybe as a long-time Giants fan I'm preconditioned to expect trouble; but I for one must confess to a sense of foreboding when I read today's NY Times item about the personalities of the current generation of team owners. This hint of ``glitz" that Tisch seems intent on introducing to the franchise is for me, at least unsettling, and even worse, does not seem to sit well with the more conservative Mara approach.
This may be a minority option, but for one hope I never live long enough to see Giants cheerleaders!
I'm not very statistically minded, but it seems to me that one of the most overlooked elements to the Giants' recent recovery is the big reduction in stupid penalties.
Pat -- and now Gail, great jobs. – Albert B.
Thanks Albert. I wouldn’t be at all shocked to see cheerleaders in the not-so distant future, especially when the new stadium opens up. I would only hope though that if they do go that route, it’s done in a tasteful fashion.
This is in response the article entitled "Giants Co-Owner Calls Celebrities to Sidelines," which appeared in the NYT's.
The short version, for those of you who have not read it , is that Steve Tisch would like to make Giant stadium the "N.F.L. equivalent of frontcourt seats at Los Angeles Lakers games...
Among those fans, he hopes, will be some famous friends. (Demi) Moore, ( Ashton) Kutcher and (Cameron) Diaz."
First of all this flies in the face of what the Giants are all about. Secondly, he's name checking Ashton Kutcher?!
Clearly this article didn't happen by accident as was either set up by or released by the PR/Communication department.
This is a very scary proposition and I suggest the Mara's organize a buyout toot sweet! – John F.
John, let’s be realistic. The Giants Stadium crowd is getting younger. The reason is the older folks who are the season-ticket holders give up their tickets because it’s too cold, it’s too wet, it’s too late, etc. And younger people look for a more all-purpose type of entertainment package in addition to the game.
Now granted, I personally don’t give a rat’s rear end who is on the sidelines. I don’t even notice who’s down there. However, that being said, I’ve been to numerous games around the NFL, John. If I am being 100% honest here, and speaking from a marketing standpoint (where my career has its roots), I think the Giants game day presentation lacks something. I don’t think the crowd gets into the game as much as it could.
Ever been to a college game? There’s nothing like that atmosphere. You get into it the minute you enter the stadium. There’s this buzz surrounding the building and it just escalates as the game progresses. That’s what I think is missing from the Giants games.
Other teams have fireworks, decent pre-game and halftime entertainment, fan activities. The Giants? Your halftime entertainment is pee wee football or a dog chasing down Frisbees!
Other teams have alumni on hand to sign autographs before games and they have parties afterwards for those who wish to stick around. The Giants? Yeah, they have their touchdown club, but from what I remember, the fans sit on one side of the bubble and the players and their families sit on the other. not the best way to encourage fan-player inteaction, as I recall.
Other teams play the latest Top 40 music in the stadium in between breaks. The Giants? From what I can hear, they are easily a few years behind in this department and I cringe when I hear oldies like Louie Armstrong's "what a Wonderufl World" (and keep in mind I love all genres of music, but Louie Armstrong's brand of music in my opinion doesn't belong in a stadium).
Look, I know the main attraction is the football game. But as ticket prices go up, I think people are going to want as much as possible for the price of their admission (how many times have readers bitched about having to pay good money to watch a bad team lose and have nothing to show for their investment?)
I’m not saying go over the top like some teams do. Just caterto your customers. showcase a local up and coming artist at halftime instead of pee-wee football or a dog chasing down a frisbee. Get some people in there to sing the National Anthem who don't butcher the song (boy, do I miss Phillip Creech and Mel Broiles). Maybe play "Hell's Bells" when the players come out of the tunnel instead of just a snippet prior to the kickoff. Cathc my drift?
Good win for the Giants in a game that would usually be a lot closer or a loss, so hopefully things are starting to turn around. I do have a few questions about the game.
First, is Rueben Droughns the new short-yardage back, or did he just get those carries because Jacobs was hurt? In my opinion Jacobs is a superb back in short yardage and would much rather see him get those carries than Droughns. I am worried Tom has designated Droughns as the short yardage guy despite having a superior short yardage guy on the team.
Second, Aaron Ross really impresses me, but Dockery continues to unimpress. I am very surprised teams aren't spreading our defense out more and trying to pick on Dockery.
Third, I've been critical of Pierce in the beginning of this year, so it is only fair that I give him props for an outstanding game.
Fourth, Tuck needs to be on the field as much as possible.
Fifth, we need to run the ball more. With Jacobs we ran all over this team. He averaged almost 7 yards a carry, yet only had 13 carries? That doesn't make sense to me. Maybe it was because of injuries, but then we should have run more with Ward or Droughns.
Finally, what was Coughlin thinking going for it on 4th down from the ATL 45 with 1 min left in the first half? That decision made no sense as ATL had two timeouts left and we were getting the ball back at the start of the second half. The risk reward did not seem worth it there for me. – Brian B.
Sounds like you had more comments than questions Brian.
Okay, a win is a win. But again with the play calling. The Giants could have run the ball at will in the second half, but they insisted on throwing long passes on first down. Wasn't the sales pitch in the off-season that the big backfield would wear down opponents in the second half of games? Well, why don't they follow their own game plan?
And Eli is just so inconsistent. So hot and then the light was turned off. Bad decisions (another late-in-the-half interception) and bad throws (a bad underthrow on the second interception). The schedule is much tougher in the second half and Eli must play better or it could be a disappointing second half ... again. – Mike M.
Mike, please don’t buy into what the so-called know-it-alls who announce the game have to say. If you go back and analyze the production, Gilbride actually called a damn good game.
Just a couple of comments about Monday night’s game against Atlanta. First, I am sure getting tired of the media put down of Eli he's better than 80% of the quarterbacks in the NFL and he’s getting better with each game. Sure he makes some mistakes, but, that’s all part of the learning process. Secondly, the ESPN team of announcers for Monday night games absolutely SUCK, once Jimmy Kimmel came into the booth there was virtually no more play by play for the rest of the game. I turned the sound off in the 4th quarter so I didn't have to listen to those three nitwits---and I thought Theisman was bad!! -- Phil G.
Any news on Smiths return? Our Giants need a third receiver bad. Moss is certainly not the answer. Had hoped to see someone in for Butler but no luck. He always seems to be in the picture but never does anything. Usually looking on. If Giants can't find a way to improve these two positions they will be exploited and we will be in big trouble against better teams. Frank L.
I hear they’re going to give it another go this week. Personally I think he might be back after the bye. As for butler, I agree. He’s a liability back there, but I think the good news is he’s keeping the seat warm for Michael Johnson. OCTOBER 15, 2007
OCTOBER 13, 2007
I know some of the other writers don't get a lot of kudos sometimes, so I'd just like to say one of my favorite subscriber articles is the "What They're Saying" that Gail Bahr puts out every week. It's always well researched and written and provides the perspective of what folks in the opponents’ city think, a viewpoint you'd be hard pressed to find elsewhere. I look forward to it every week. – Joe K.
OCTOBER 12, 2007 Thanks Ref.
In response to Andy B.'s comment re: there being minimal chatter about the O line. That's actually one of the higher compliments you can pay them. The less you hear about an O line, the better they are usually doing. – John F.
Amen John. Those are five of the most non-descript guys I’ve ever come across (though in their own way, each is quite a character.)
I don't understand why some people are critical of Gilbride's play-calling. There is something positive going on with our play-calling that just absolutely wasn't there under Hufnagel. There is more of a variable flow. As a fan, I can't sit here and break down the tapes, but I could instantly notice a difference immediately during first game Gilbride took over last year. I like the commitment to a balance of power running and counter plays. I like way he is dialing up play action (Eli's strength). I like the occasional bombs to open up a game. Y'all can complain all you want, but I think Eli is happy with it. I think the O-line is happy with it. I think Plax is happy with it. I know Jacobs and Ward are happy with it. So who's complaining? – Jeff H.
Jeff, you’re probably wondering because this team has been winning. Anyway, Vince Lombardi used to say that when something was working, you stick with it until your opponent finds a way to stop you. The problem with Gilbride is he tends to abandon the running game too prematurely and I think people have a problem with that. Just go back and look at the first half of the Jets game and compare it with the second half of the Giants game. Better yet, if you look at the premium stats I put out every week, you’ll see the run-pass breakdown and the associated production. OCTOBER 11, 2007 The Ref states that "there was absolutely no way that the challenge on the pass on the sideline would be upheld." On the play, the Field Judge, Bill Lovett, ruled that Coles caught the ball and would have come down in bounds had he not been forced out by Gibril Wilson and Corey Webster. The force out, of course, is not reviewable, not because it's a judgment call (which is what they always say on TV), but because the owners have not made force-outs reviewable.
They could make them reviewable if they so desire. That's not what Coughlin was challenging. As was clearly indicated by Referee Bill Carollo, Coughlin challenged the validity of the catch, whether Coles originally caught the ball and then maintained possession as he hit the turf and rolled along the sideline, as is required. Coughlin's challenge was not upheld but it was a perfectly legitimate challenge. – Andy B.
Thanks Andy.
Random Observations: Agree or Disagree?
1) Minimal chatter about David Diehl and O-Line in general. Seems to me like one of the most solid units on the team.
2) Eli seems a lot more comfortable whipping the ball downfield than in the short passing game. Yes there will be some overthrows, but he's got one of the top arms in the league, and the ball seems to fly more naturally in the downfield passing game.
3) Secondary is a lot better in man than zone. I mean a lot better, that zone with the wide open middle is just killing us on 3rd down. – Pete L.
1 – Agree; 2 – Disagree; 3-Agree.
20 carries 100 yards and 1TD, not bad for being out 4 weeks for the BIG RB. He did a great job on Sunday. This team is finally playing on all cylinders. Actually with the exception of one position in particular. Safety, Mr. James Butler surprises me every Sunday. He seems to almost give up big plays left and right. With a chance to seal the game in the 4th qtr. he misses a sure interception. I mean it was right in his hands and in the shady part of the field. I really do not know what this staff sees in him that they didn’t in Demps. I would really like to see what Michael Johnson can do, who knows the kid could be a diamond in the rough. Looks like a good hitter to.
Onto to another position. Cornerback, these guys are playing pretty solid. Was it me or did Dockery play ahead of Webster? If so that really says a lot about Webster's decline. Grant it Dockery gave up a td but with more playing time he'll be a better CB. If Ross and Dockery are the future CB's of this organization than who better to tutor them than Madison and McQuarters. I mean they've both lost a step but there is so much wisdom that can passed onto Ross and Dockery. -- Dom M.
Dom, Demps supposedly had an attitude problem. That being said, I don’t believe butler is the long-term fix at safety. Dockery is much better than Webster right now in my opinion.
While I'm basking in the glow of three straight Giant wins, I have to ask "Is Eli's shoulder OK?" It just seems he's lost something on his throws. Can't blame the weather, it's been warm. And it's too early for his second half fade...So is he fully healed or not? – Jim I.
Jim, a NFL player is never going to be “fully healed” from an injury until the season ends.
OCTOBER 10, 2007
Just one of many.
I don't have the stat handy, but it certainly feels like the Giants have much fewer illegal procedure penalties this year. In terms of hidden yardage, I'm sure this has accounted for some points. – John F.
The new premium stats are up John. Have a look.
OCTOBER 9, 2007 The following letter is from the “Ref,” author of “Ask the Official” in respon |